004 | From transactional to TRANSFORMATIONAL Selling with Finka Jerkovic

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  Episode Overview

In episode 004, host Paul M. Caffrey welcomes Finka Jerkovic, author of "Sell From Love." The conversation revolves around Finka's insights on transformational selling and her unique concept of the 'Brilliant Difference and Value Triangle.'

Key Discussion Points

  1. Introduction of Guest

    • Finka Jerkovic shares her enthusiasm for the discussion and her recent work in the field of transformational selling.
  2. Transformational Selling and the Eight Habits

    • Finka and Paul delve into the essential habits needed to deepen client relationships and grow business while maintaining integrity.
  3. The Concept of Brilliant Difference and Value Triangle

    • Finka discusses the importance of understanding one's unique value and impact in the realm of sales and client relationships.
  4. Overcoming the Fear of Standing Out

    • The discussion tackles the psychological barriers to showcasing personal brilliance and how to safely embrace one’s unique value.
  5. Application of the Brilliant Difference in Sales

    • Finka explains how sales professionals can utilize their unique qualities and impacts to differentiate themselves and add value to their customer relationships.
  6. Case Study: Apple's "Think Different"

    • Apple’s branding strategy is analyzed as a prime example of the Brilliant Difference concept in action, highlighting its impact on consumer identity and choice.
  7. Empowering Sales with Personal Brilliance

    • The conversation emphasizes the importance of sales professionals recognizing their value and confidently contributing to their roles.
  8. Competing Beyond Product Features

    • Paul and Finka discuss strategies for excelling in sales situations where product features may not be the sole differentiator, emphasizing the role of personal touch and value in winning deals.


The episode concludes with insights on the role of individual uniqueness in transforming not just the sales process but also the customer experience and business relationships. Finka's expertise offers listeners a fresh perspective on the art of selling, emphasizing integrity, personal value, and transformational strategies.

Recommended Action: Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own 'Brilliant Difference' and consider how it can be applied to enhance their professional and personal interactions.

Next Episode Teaser: US Olympian and NFL Football player Johnny Quinn will join us!!

Full Episode Transcript: 

Paul M. Caffrey (00:01.319)
And as I mentioned, we are joined by Finge Jerovich. Finge, how are you? Thanks so much for coming on.

Finka (00:08.211)
I am doing great, Paul. How are you? I'm glad to be here, so thank you for having me.

Paul M. Caffrey (00:12.655)
Yeah, no, I look under the light as you're here. I'm excited for this conversation because you have a new book. Yeah, as I mentioned, transformational selling the eight habits to deepen client relationships and grow your business with your integrity intact. I think there's not a person listening who's not going to agree with that wholeheartedly, but I'm sure you're going to be wondering one thing.

Finka (00:19.495)
I do, I do.

Paul M. Caffrey (00:40.971)
Well, what are the habits I need to deepen? So today I'm hoping we can dig into that if you're okay with that and I look to unpack some of that.

Finka (00:49.63)
Absolutely, absolutely. I'm excited for our conversation and can't wait to dive in.

Paul M. Caffrey (00:55.247)
Yeah, look, let's get started. And one of the things that jumped out at me as I was reading your book was. You speak about your brilliant difference and value triangle. I hope I'm saying that correctly. And one of these things that I think a lot of people are going, OK, that's interesting, but, you know, how do I create that? And why is that important to me?

Finka (01:20.842)
Yeah. So when we think about selling and just think about the product or service that you're selling, you know, often, whether even if it's a new product to market, eventually you will have competitors that product or service will have some competition in some form. And often what could happen when we think about how we sell it.

it boils down to the transactional sales methodology where we focus on price, we focus on maybe a particular feature or the promotion of that product or service. When we wanna show up as a transformational seller, what the important part here is really looking at you as the person that is creating the connection with your clients.

that there is something intrinsically unique and different about you and how you sell, how you serve, how you're there to show up as their trusted advisor and partner with them to help them make the best decision for what they're looking to do. Your brilliant difference is our way of packaging your intangibles, your intrinsic goodness, the way that your skills, your expertise, your personality, your communication style,

qualities we capture in what we call your brilliant difference. Now your brilliant difference comes in two parts. So part one is your brilliance. It's all about you. It's about all of this goodness, this experience expertise. Now what often happens, especially when we focus in on our UVP, our unique value proposition or our personal brand, what happens is it for some of us and maybe many of us, I know it did for me.

It's like, I don't want to be showy. I don't want to show off. It feels too egotistical. And we start to dim down those parts of ourselves or we don't want to stand out. Now, we don't want to stand out because our brain doesn't want us to stand out, part of it, because if we do, then we might be called out or might be judged and it's protecting us. But you do want to stand out because that's how clients are going to choose you. And so how do we make it safe for our brain to stand out?

Paul M. Caffrey (03:05.478)

Finka (03:30.53)
How do we make it safe for ourselves to say that, okay, this is not coming from an egocentric place of really owning your brilliance, is we pair it with your difference. And your difference is your impact. It's about who it is here to serve. And so what we want you to look at is, your brilliant difference is not about you. Yes, you bring these qualities, these strengths, these assets to the table, but it's in the service of your customer. Now I know for me, and so we'll talk about, let's say the three,

the value triangle of your brilliant difference, it's made of two parts. It's who you are. It's the impact you leave. So it's the difference you make, but it's also who other people get to be if they choose to work with you. And the best example I love to use, especially because it's very universal is, and you know, I have an iPhone. Do you have an iPhone? Yes. Yeah, okay. So we all have an iPhone. So Apple's brilliant difference is think different.

Paul M. Caffrey (04:15.219)

Paul M. Caffrey (04:22.415)
Yes, yeah, yeah.

Finka (04:29.438)
And those are the two words that they decided that they would create their brand around, who they are, their purpose. And every decision went through this lens of, does this product or this service, does it represent think different? Okay. And it is who they are. It helped them create the iPhone, the iPad, the iPod, all these amazing products because they honed in on that brilliant difference.

They said no to everything else because they knew what they were here to do is to think differently. And that also was the impact that they left with us. So they transformed how we communicate, how we connect. You know, this is like our third hand, like it's our second brain. Like it literally has become part of us. And so that's so who they were think different. The impact they left was they...

Paul M. Caffrey (05:18.853)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Finka (05:28.334)
created a product that got us to think differently, but it's also who we became. Because when you think about a brand and who we, what we purchase, the brand we purchase also is an extension of what represents us. And so if I'm the type of person that buys an Apple product, I too am identifying as someone who thinks differently. So I want you to now, we'll kind of loop back to you as a person. So, you know,

I know my brilliant difference is empowering ideas. It's who I am, it's what I bring to the table is I always want to come up with ideas that are gonna empower people to sell more, lead better and make an impact. It's also the impact that I deliver. So when I think about my training and my coaching, it's the impact that I wanna leave on others. Also, when I'm thinking about this podcast and this conversation that we're having, my hope is and my intention is that as...

You know, we have this conversation that, you know, you that are listening to this episode, is that you walk away with an empowering idea that helps you sell better, sell more, and be more effective as you go out there building relationships. But it's also, the clients that I get to work with, they also will identify with empowering ideas because the solutions that they're purchasing with me are gonna create empowering ideas in their organization so that they can.

become go from transactional to transformational selling. So, you know, it's this, so to sum all of that up, your brilliant difference is the foundation of who you are, how you show up, and as a sales professional or a sales leader, it's the impact that you're here to deliver to your clients and to your team. And, you know, it's one of the most, it's the most important piece of work we all have to do, because I think when we go out there to sell,

uh, doubt, fear, uncertainty. Uh, we start lacking confidence. We lose our way when you can anchor in and say, okay, I know I'm here to bring empowering ideas. It's like all of a sudden, I know my purpose here. I know why I'm here. I know what I'm here to do. And it's just that level set. It, it helps you walk in the room with more confidence, but also understand that you do bring value and helps you stand out because you're differentiating yourself from your customers.

Paul M. Caffrey (07:28.836)
Absolutely, yeah.

Paul M. Caffrey (07:51.411)
I think what I really like about it is it is something which is overlooked so often, because if we think about it really logically, you know, a prospect or a customer, there could be 10 solutions they might decide I could buy one of these 10 solutions. They'll probably only look at two or three in an evaluation. And if you're the salesperson, a lot of us, we do tend to get tied up on our company's position in the market. We're the market leader. That's fantastic.

Finka (07:56.75)

Finka (08:14.155)

Paul M. Caffrey (08:20.411)
but it means we're really expensive and it's always a problem or we don't have the rich feature set, which is there and they're going to want this and we don't do that or we don't have that integration. So there's always going to be an element that your product is lacking in, no matter what end of the market you're serving or where you're at. But you're probably only up against two, three other sales professionals. So you don't be the best sales professional in the world to win the deal. But you do have to outperform a few other people.

And if you're just going to let your product do that piece, you know, you might win some, you might lose others. But if you're going that extra mile and you're actually making a difference, you're running a better discovery, you're running a much better solution presentation and the whole round experience actually takes the boxes for the outcome that the customer needs. You can win that business with the inferior product or with the more expensive solution because you've connected to the value.

How do you do that? Being a bit better. And I imagine like knowing your brilliant difference amplifies that. Or certainly you would see, you know, people perform into a higher level when they start to actually consider themselves as part of the value add and not just the product, the service, the offering, everything else that goes in between.

Finka (09:41.958)
Absolutely. One of the clients that we were recently working with, they're an accounting firm and they have hundreds of accountants. A way in which they differentiate themselves and the way they build their relationships with their customers is that each of these

Finka (10:09.258)
their brilliant difference and how they bring value to the table. Now, what helps is when they know that, because we can go get accounting services from anywhere. Um, and, um, what helps them then not only, it helps them also match with the best client because all of a sudden, you know, you might bring something to the table, whether it's, um, you, you create a better, a stronger relationships because you're more empathetic.

Paul M. Caffrey (10:17.987)
Yeah, everywhere.

Finka (10:39.242)
or you're more analytical. So you create the way you serve your customers through analysis and insights versus the human connection and empathy. And so we can have these two types of accountants that are selling the same solutions, but how they approach their customer is going to be uniquely different. And now if let's say the person that's the relationship builder that's very empathetic and sensitive to their customer's needs,

Paul M. Caffrey (10:55.75)

Finka (11:08.706)
the person that does insights and analysis and is a superstar at that, if they're looking at that person, they're like, oh, I gotta be more of that and more of that. And it's not to say we are not here to strengthen some of those other skillsets. Yes, they're important, but we don't lead with those. And all of a sudden they start doing what the relationship builder is versus them as an insight deliverer or collector and an analyzer, they start being someone that they're not. And all of a sudden they don't,

Paul M. Caffrey (11:22.183)

Finka (11:38.094)
create the connection with their customer. They're not feeling as confident. Customers are gonna sense that, oh, this person doesn't feel very authentic. They don't feel real. And so where we have to start is really start embracing those qualities that we bring, our strengths to the table, our brilliance to the table, because that's actually how you're gonna serve your client the best. Now your clients might need some of these other.

Paul M. Caffrey (11:49.776)

Finka (12:05.038)
quality so you can bring the empathetic human touch relationship builder. And then all of a sudden they also need the analysis and the insights. And so I think of, you know, sales leaders and sales managers, like this is where you've got a team of various talent around the table. And when we think about how do you leverage that talent, it could be by matching it with client and portfolios. It could be by them leveraging each other's skills.

So when you think of a team or a sales manager as you're leading your team, each of your team members, your employees have their own unique, brilliant difference. Leverage that so that's how they differentiate themselves to build that relationship with that customer. But also start collectively looking at the entire team dynamic and saying, okay, how can these two sales professionals collaborate so we can strengthen that client relationship? Maybe build.

Paul M. Caffrey (12:47.748)

Finka (13:00.394)
an even deeper relationship because now we get lifetime value because they're building and doing more business with us because we're able to meet all these different needs. And the market, the products and the corporate brand, all those are very important, but you have to look at who's doing the selling as the human and the sales professional behind that. They're the ones building that relationship. And so great, they've got the value proposition of the organization, the company, the value proposition of the product or service.

Paul M. Caffrey (13:08.292)
Yeah, absolutely.

Finka (13:29.11)
but we are not spending enough time building the value proposition of the sales professional, which is like the link to the customer. And when we do that, then we've built on all three of them.

Paul M. Caffrey (13:39.207)
It's so interesting. It's yeah. And it's not something which isn't, it's not widely spoken about, which was makes it even, um, you know, even that alone is something you can take away and look at and, you know, you're building your sales team, you know, yes, we want to see who's tenured, so who's there the longest, who's new to you, we want to have a balance so that we don't get caught with our whole team leaving. But then, you know, those little cultural fits, those little differences, what, what is your team missing that maybe it's not going to be a job description.

but it certainly is going to be missing if you don't fill it. And it might help you pick different candidates. Now, one of the things that you speak about is deliberate positive interruptions. I really like this when I was reading the book. I would love for you to share some more on that.

Finka (14:23.306)
Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things we talk about, you know, to become and be a transformational seller, we have to do this thing called edge moves and edge moves are, you know, I'll do. So in my sales training and curriculum that we teach part of the process when people work when our customers work with us is they do we assess and we like you, we love doing the work before the work. Right. So we want to understand them. So they do an intake questionnaire and

One of the questions we always ask is, when it comes to sales or selling, what would you do if you weren't afraid? And it's been interesting because different groups, depending on the segment, if they're commission sales, non-commission sales, depending on industry, if they're in retail sales or in financial services will respond differently. And often we will sometimes get this response, depending on the industry, I'm not afraid of selling. I'm not afraid. There's nothing I'm afraid of.

And yeah, we're gonna call that. We are all afraid of something. And as a transformational seller, we want you to be a little bit afraid. We want you to be doing things that you have not done because if we continue to do what we've done, even if it's working, we become complacent and you're not actually unlocking your full potential. There is always more, there's always more. And so this whole notion of stepping out and doing something that...

Paul M. Caffrey (15:21.907)

Paul M. Caffrey (15:43.09)

Finka (15:47.09)
It might be reaching out to a higher stake client, maybe dipping your toe in an industry that you have yet to move into. It might be speaking on a stage to talk about how you help your customers, but instead of a lunch and learn, you're actually going out to an industry conference and speaking to a couple hundred people. So again, it's these edge moves that we want people to make. Now, when we do these edge moves, our brain,

has a reaction to that. It's like, this is scary, this is uncomfortable. Where are you going? Why are you doing this? And a deliberate positive interruption is how we calm our nervous system, how we prepare ourselves. And now as I say that, now I know why you like this so much because it is about the work before the work. It fits perfectly with yours.

It's really about how do we prepare ourselves for the client conversation, for the sales interaction, for the marketing, you know, opportunity, whether it's posting a blog on LinkedIn or getting on stage to speak, whatever that venue might be for you, how do you set yourself up for success? And so deliberate positive interruption, DPI for short, I worked in financial services my whole career, so we love acronyms.

are these things that help bring your energy back into alignment. So when we go do something, especially when it comes to selling, we are stretching ourselves, right? So we're reaching out to client that we haven't before, we're doing a cold call, it's feeling awkward, uncomfortable. These uncomfortable emotions start percolating. Sometimes we can push them down. What I love to do is we make sure we have, you know,

Paul M. Caffrey (17:17.03)

Finka (17:41.366)
just a run in the morning, a meditation, a prayer practice. It could be doing things like golf. I've got a farm, so for me gardening, hanging out with our horses. Last night I was on Zoom yesterday all day coaching and I did a workshop in the morning that I needed to get out and I'm like, all right, four o'clock, put on my bee suit. That was a DPI for me and I went out and did some beekeeping.

Paul M. Caffrey (17:51.424)
Oh cool. Yeah, yeah.

Finka (18:06.366)
So those kinds of things help me bring myself back into balance because I also love my work so much that I could do it all the time. So to keep me balanced, these DPI's. And so what also happens is so DPI's can look like your health and wellness, you know, physical workouts, meditation, things like that. But they're also fun things because I also think being in sales and

Paul M. Caffrey (18:07.591)

Paul M. Caffrey (18:16.292)
Yes, no surprise there.

Finka (18:35.95)
having that often that type a very competitive, got a work, work mentality. It's great because it our ambitions there, but we also need to give ourselves open it up, have fun, have a hobby, something to interrupt to interrupt, because all of this negative stuff, whether it's coming at us.

Paul M. Caffrey (18:53.559)
Yeah, gotcha, yeah. Be able to switch off. Yeah.

Finka (19:04.562)
from the outside world or we're feeling it internally because we're nervous or scared or we've got to do something that's a little bit edgy. DPI is basically how we keep our nervous system moving. So we're not going to not feel uncomfortable, but it just helps us take that negative energy and what might be going on. We give it a place to go.

Paul M. Caffrey (19:28.195)
Yeah, I really like that because there's always such a focus on those situations. Maybe it's, right, I've got a meeting with the whole board team and actually there's going to be a couple of investors and I'm going to be the only person presenting my solution and maybe I'm asking them for 10, 20, 50, 100k, whatever that is. And it's just me and maybe, maybe someone's with me, but it's probably just me.

Paul M. Caffrey (19:56.595)
growth opportunities. Yeah, there are moments that you can carer into it, you can be afraid of, you can be nervous for them. Absolutely. But having, I guess, something before or after to maybe even take the focus away or get you back down to that level is a really, really nice idea. And sometimes I might try. I was thinking to myself as you were talking going, oh, I do that. Yeah, I mean, I was in the gym this morning. I've got a new trainer. I'm doing a cross 15. And I'm like,

Oh, maybe that falls into the whole competitive sales, trying to improve yourself sort of thing. That's probably not quite what this is. It's not a hobby.

Finka (20:26.382)
Thanks for watching!

But it is, but it is, it is part of it because you're giving your, any of the, like that emotional noise that might be going inside of us or what we're thinking for overthinking things. We give it a place to get processed. And for a lot of us, we can be in our, we're in our head a lot, we're on our phones a lot, information, like we're so top heavy that you actually need to go move your body and doing a workout to get it out. Like this morning I went and did my upper body workout, got it done.

Paul M. Caffrey (20:42.948)

Paul M. Caffrey (20:46.129)

Paul M. Caffrey (20:59.26)
Fair play.

Finka (21:00.266)
I've got a big keynote coming up in a couple of weeks. And so one of the things that I know I have to do, it's like, okay, to prepare for that, there's a bit of edginess in there and it is a growth moment and I will be nervous. And that's good. It's actually really good, keeps us on alert. We wanna have that emotion, but I'm also gonna be very excited about it. But it's like, okay, I've got to make sure I get enough rest. I love yoga nidra,

that the more non-yoga nidra name is non-sleep deep rest, so NSDR. And so it's a beautiful technique for those of us that, you know, need a little bit more rest, maybe not get it, but it helps again, decompress our nervous system. So it's like, all right, I'm gonna do my yoga nidras twice a day as I lead up to. The other thing is the busier we are, and the more we have on our plate, the more DPI's we need.

Paul M. Caffrey (21:46.608)
Okay, yeah.

Paul M. Caffrey (21:59.715)
Okay, something to keep in mind then, yeah, how do you...

Finka (22:00.834)
So yeah, and as you elevate your leadership and your impact, you actually need more of them. So you need like less time, almost like in the business, working the business and more time taking yourself, care of yourself so you can be on the business. So again, super important part of.

Paul M. Caffrey (22:07.494)

Paul M. Caffrey (22:17.19)

And I guess it's no surprise that we see some, you know, a lot of the bigger organizations out there giving wellness budgets on a monthly basis, and they could just give you cash, but no, you have to submit a receipt for something that you've done. So it's probably this stuff is out there, but maybe our IHS aren't open to it. Now, one thing that jumped out at me, I think it would be super interesting to get into with the book was a lot of traditional sales were brought up in the

Finka (22:37.948)

Paul M. Caffrey (22:47.271)
you know, give and get and then, you know, score your gives and gets with the prospect to kind of see if it's on a level playing field, you've probably got a deal. Um, you know, maybe you don't, if there's too much going one way or the other. Um, one of the things you call out is to, to give with no strings attached. And I think this idea will be new to a lot of people listening. Uh, and I'd really like you to expand upon it a little bit.

Finka (23:13.918)
Mm-hmm. You know, it's something that even when I look back on my career, it was something that I naturally intuitively did. And then looking back at a sales career, you're like, oh, that's how that all worked out. And it was this idea that, you know, when you think of your customers, they've got a need, they've got a problem that needs to be solved. They've got a goals that they want to achieve.

Paul M. Caffrey (23:27.592)

Finka (23:41.15)
And our job is to help them get that solved, achieve that goal, help them experience the transformation that they're looking to get. Now, they might not yet choose you because they don't know you, they don't yet can they trust you, you haven't done the rapport and the relationship building. And my belief is that showing up in this

this natural, maybe it's natural for me, not natural for everyone else, but natural for many of us, just this place of giving and serving and putting them as the most important person. We've got, this is the problem with sales, because we've got a sales target, we've got a sales goal, we've got to get something from our customer. When we sell, we get something out of the deal. It distorts the relationship.

And so when we go and we interact with our customers, we actually have to put the sales target, our sales goal to the side, and we put them at the head of the table. Like it's about them. And if you focus more on what they're gonna get out of the deal versus what you're gonna get, everyone wins. And that might mean that they might not even choose you. So you might say you actually are gonna be better suited by being served by that other organization.

And it totally makes sense why you wouldn't work with us because it's gonna cost you $100,000 to break that contract. Let's not do that. I don't want it to cost you that. It does not mean that you're gonna, like that lead or that opportunity is gone. Now, how you build that rapport, that trust, that relationship is by giving. Because all of a sudden they're like, well, they're not looking to get anything out of me. They're genuinely coming from this place of integrity, a place of service.

Paul M. Caffrey (25:29.22)

Finka (25:35.986)
And they're not saying these things to themselves, but when it comes to making a decision, am I gonna choose to work with Paul? He's just been so awesome helping me solve problems and not getting, like, you know, he sent me an article on an issue that I was having. He reached out and thought of a way that I could make a little bit more money or build some more loyalty with my customers, sent me some best practice tips. He had this webinar.

or this info session and he gave me the latest trends, you know, you're building your value proposition. If you're giving this much already without them signing up to work with you, just imagine, and then they're like, just imagine what I'm gonna get by choosing to pick Paul and his company to work with us. It also makes selling.

Paul M. Caffrey (26:19.783)

Finka (26:30.474)
whole lot easier. Like it just reminds us we're not here to sell something that people don't want or don't need. We're really here to serve them, get more of what they want, to have the transformation that they're looking for and if you help them get what they want you're gonna you're gonna win win. Your company will win, you as a sales professional win and your team will.

Paul M. Caffrey (26:48.707)
Yeah, I think that really think a loops background to, you know, the word transformational because the deals that are transformational, they bring the most value. They're typically, you know, the bigger ticket for obvious reasons, but there's always skin on the game on the other side, whether it's an executive or whoever it is who's putting their reputation on the line by making a decision to number one, do this project and then number two, select you.

as the person to partner with for the delivery of it. So I guess what I'm hearing is, show that you really care for the outcome for that they're going to reach there. Yes, the sale needs to happen at a certain point for you to work on or deliver the thing for them to reach that. But if you care about the success that will come through earlier on, if you're actually sharing and giving, you know,

articles, invites to whatever opportunities to speak with others, whatever it may be, as opposed to maybe just thinking about your sales cycle and going, right, I've got the step qualification now I'm into the school. So, you know, being a real person, I guess, also comes into that somewhat as well. And while I was chatting to a coaching client this week, and he hates prospecting, hates it.

And I was like, there is a day that's going to come where you're going to love prospecting. And he's like, no, it's not. I was like, no, it is because when you can unlock that, you then will have, not going to say unlimited, but you will always have pipeline. So you will always do well. And so it's going, OK, that's interesting. But hate it. And so we spoke about the idea of, well, you know, eating the frog, which was a new concept to him. And, you know, that's fine. They adopted it.

But then I saw in your book, you mentioned something else you talk about. Well, yeah, eat the frog, but you can make that frog tastier. And as there's probably a lot of people listening who don't want to do prospecting or they don't have to do that reporting or whatever. How do we do that? How do we make it tastier?

Finka (29:06.131)
Can I ask what first what did the coaching client why don't they like it? What is it about it?

Paul M. Caffrey (29:11.767)
The Goatram client feels they are not good at it, but the reality is they're not making the time to do the activities. So they're not getting any results, but they're not doing the work because they're finding reasons to do something else. But then in their head, they think, well, I'm bad and I can't do it. I'm an inbound salesperson. I'm great at closing the inbound business. I can't close outbound. But.

It's not even getting to back, if that makes sense.

Finka (29:43.294)
Yeah, yeah, it does. It does. Again, prospecting. So even when you think of prospecting, like it's, again, we go back to the mindset of what we think of when we think of sales, salesy, pushy, prospecting, I'm, I'm prospecting to get something from someone versus I am going out there, finding ideal clients that I could help.

them get what they want. And so all of a sudden, as soon as we say prospecting, the idea of prospecting, it's more about us versus our customers and how we can help them. And so part one is it is a mindset shift. It is a mind shift that prospecting isn't about you. It's about there are people out there with problems that need solving and goals that they wanna achieve. And we're keeping the solution away from them because we're not going out there talking about it.

We're not out there sharing it. And so it's almost reminding ourselves that you're here for more than a sale. Now, one of the things that I love, I think of what helps me stay in alignment to what selling really is, is I look at my sales pipeline, my prospecting, my moving through the stages like a garden. And...

Paul M. Caffrey (30:38.172)

Finka (31:06.654)
And so for me, you know, part of, so again, I'll go back to a couple of my, you know, we have, I have a little farm here and so I have a garden and every year we're planting, you know, vegetables and squashes and pumpkins and tomatoes and salads and all that kind of stuff. And what I was noticing, so I live in an area in Ontario where our climate is

is a little bit shorter than it is a little more south of us. And it is, and it gets cooler a lot quicker. So we, maybe our season ends two weeks. It starts two weeks later and it ends two weeks sooner. And so what I was noticing was my peppers weren't growing out in the thing. And so like, let's get a, let's get a greenhouse. I'm gonna get to how this all relates to sales in a second. And so we changed the environment and the environment.

Paul M. Caffrey (31:46.643)

Finka (32:01.95)
All of a sudden, we put up this greenhouse and I started planting my peppers and my eggplants and my lettuces and all of a sudden, things started blooming and growing. And so when you think about prospecting, sometimes we don't like prospecting because we're prospecting in the wrong spots. And so we might be hanging out in the wrong networks or we might handing out in the wrong...

Paul M. Caffrey (32:19.196)

Finka (32:24.266)
events or around social channels and all of it and we're not seeing success and it's really difficult to keep prospecting when you're not being rewarded with your effort. So that would be a thing to look at is look at where are you prospecting and are you prospecting in places where are gonna be eye for your ideal clients and clients you love to work with like that's the other thing you want to be looking at. So now I'll go back into our greenhouse. One of the things

Paul M. Caffrey (32:47.097)

Finka (32:51.614)
You know, we hear this term a lot in sales, fast, feast or famine, feast or famine, feast or famine. And I've experienced feast or famine. I feast because I've planted a lot of seeds and all of a sudden, like, it's a bountiful garden and I'm so busy serving, delivering. And then after I finish all that, there are no more seeds planted. And I have the well has dried up again and then I got to go seed again. And so.

That's the other challenge is, you know, how do we continue out there prospecting or seeding our garden? So I want us to think about where we have a greenhouse, where we have we're gardeners, we're out there planting these beautiful seeds so we can serve these clients. And that one day you get to harvest, you know, it in a sale and financial reward. But they also do because they get to have the outcome of your products and your services. So.

Yeah, so, you know, I'll wrap that up to really say, you know, looking at prospecting from this place of it's a mindset shift again, around, it's not about you, it's about them, make it rewarding for you. So are you prospecting in the right places? So you can get that feedback if you're not getting feedback or you're getting feedback because nothing's happening that is feedback, find better places to do your prospecting. And the other is like really look at

It's not a one and done process. It's something that we're doing on an ongoing basis.

Paul M. Caffrey (34:22.839)
Yeah, I really liked that. For a moment, I thought you were going to say, just tell them to go sit in a greenhouse.

Finka (34:30.282)
You know, the greenhouse is amazing for us here when it's winter. So we get winter with, you know, a couple feet of snow in December. And so, but then on a sunny, beautiful day, oh, I'm going to say it's, it could get in the, so here I'm thinking like mid twenties to thirties in Celsius. So Fahrenheit, you know, in the seventies and eighties. So it can be, you know, freezing point or below freezing and you go in the greenhouse and it's just lovely. It is lovely.

Paul M. Caffrey (34:36.731)
Oh wow, beautiful.

Paul M. Caffrey (34:57.479)
There you go. So, yeah, maybe that is the way to go. Oh, no, I look I really like that. I'll make sure to pass it on, pass it on to him. Going to run through a couple of quickfire questions now. So watch out. Here we go. So looking for tips and tips which people can maybe take away and potentially use the next few days, weeks, months or whatever. So first.

Finka (35:00.439)

Finka (35:09.336)

Paul M. Caffrey (35:26.703)
What is your best tip for prospecting?

Finka (35:31.306)
I would say CRM, keep notes. We are so inundated with information. Like I just had an opportunity that I sent a proposal out last week, a couple of weeks ago to do a follow-up and I completely forgot about them. Like, and it was if my CRM, if my system didn't like send me a note to follow up. So having a system or process to capture.

information of clients that you want to be reaching out to, how you gave them value, discovery meetings you had, next steps you've set, and a place to capture notes. So it's not only you, but your team can also be abreast of what's going on with clients, where they are in that relationship building series and stage before and when they choose to work with you. I'm going to say from a prospecting element, that is one of the most important tools you need in your back pocket.

Paul M. Caffrey (36:14.385)

Finka (36:28.41)
to keep you on your toes and moving. Yeah.

Paul M. Caffrey (36:28.656)
So make sure you're keeping notes somewhere. Yeah, ideally CRM. I think there'll be some sales managers that will be listening. He'll be very happy to hear that. Update the CRM. Crucially important.

Finka (36:37.11)
Yeah, yeah, it is. You know, it's one of those things, even as a salesperson before, I didn't love doing it. I like working in financial, it was like, we had to, I'm like, oh God, you know, the eye rolls like really, and then they bring a new system, like really, really. And then over the years, you're like, that is the one of the secret tools that helps you, that will help you inevitably be successful.

Paul M. Caffrey (36:47.46)
Oh yeah.

Paul M. Caffrey (36:57.115)
Yeah. I look at it, if you're doing a bit of time on an account and then you forget to follow up, you've wasted even more time. So right. Like from a sales perspective, what's one tip someone can take away from this and use.

Finka (37:11.038)
Um, always have a call to action at the end of every meeting that you have. Um, always have something you are having you and your client do to reconnect in some way. Um, the sale doesn't happen in one event. It is something and it can happen in one event, but it's something that it's built on over and over and over again. And if you don't name the call to action, they won't. And that.

Paul M. Caffrey (37:15.123)

Finka (37:37.486)
potential opportunity will fizzle as you move forward, but give yourself something to do and give them something to do.

Paul M. Caffrey (37:39.899)

Paul M. Caffrey (37:43.203)
Yeah, I really liked that. And what I think is sometimes, like, let's say if you're given a demo, your call to action might be a feedback call or a negotiate or presentation, you know, of commercials. If you're not going to finish that on time, you can call it out. Maybe five minutes from the end, like, Oh, we've got five minutes left. Look, it feels like you're going to see everything that you want from the demo. And the next thing that we move on to will be this. How do you want to spend the rest of the time? At least your signposting.

we're going to chat again as opposed to, oh, I have a hard stop, thanks, bye. And you're like, oh, gone. So if someone's looking to advance their career, maybe get promoted, maybe do something else, what advice have you got for them?

Finka (38:18.772)

Finka (38:28.146)
I say discover and own your brilliant difference. Really hone in on who you are. Claim that brilliance that you bring to the table and use it as the lever to show value, demonstrate your impact, and at the end, you will be rewarded with the promotion, with the sale, with the revenue, and with the acknowledgement and recognition you're looking for.

Paul M. Caffrey (38:33.107)
Okay. Yeah.

Paul M. Caffrey (38:52.419)
Yeah, I'm I really like that because if you think of what's going to happen, there's going to be a bunch of capable people brought in for interview. And on paper, you probably all have what everyone is looking for or enough of it. And in reality, probably most of you can do the job. But a brilliant difference is going to really be a way to stand out. And sometimes you can even speak with a hiring manager or a leader in advance and maybe look to figure out what that could be. So.

Really, really like that. OK, so I guess like one thing that always interests me. Is books, so Finke, what book from a sales perspective? Do you think people should check out?

Paul M. Caffrey (39:51.815)
Can you hear me? Ah, I think we had a little bit of internet issues. It's fine, this will be picked up afterwards because there's two feeds being, yeah. So I was just getting ready to wrap. So I was just asking, apart from yours, what book do you reckon people should check out if they wanna get better in the world of sales?

Finka (39:52.242)
Oh, there you are. Now I can hear you. Yeah.

Finka (40:02.091)
Yes. Yeah.

Finka (40:19.278)
One of the ones, I definitely recommend your book. Then aside from yours and my book, where would they go? Aside from those, I love, absolutely love Perennial Seller by Ryan Holiday. Reminds us that selling doesn't happen with, it's not one hit wonders, we're all in it for the long game. And yeah, an incredible book that reminds us that.

Paul M. Caffrey (40:24.723)
It's why I filmed that, yeah, something else.

Finka (40:47.506)
Even if you think it's not working, it is, just keep at it.

Paul M. Caffrey (40:51.503)
Yeah, really like it. And, um, I haven't actually read that one, so I'm just going, I'm just going to check it out. So there you go. Yeah.

Finka (40:57.15)
Yeah, grab it. You'll love it. You will. You will love it. You know, one of the ones that the stories that he tells is of the band Iron Maiden, and Iron Maiden streams more music on Spotify than Madonna. And so we all have heard of Madonna, unless, you know, an Iron Maiden, some of us may have. And, and yeah, right, right. And so just taking it you through to realize that there are more ways that you don't have to be in

Paul M. Caffrey (41:15.291)
Well, that's surprising for sure. Yeah.

Finka (41:27.73)
on the, you know, sort of the one hit charts, charts like Madonna has over the years, Iron Maiden has as well, but very quietly in the background. So we can sell in front or behind and have even better outcomes. So it's a really good book. Pick it up.

Paul M. Caffrey (41:43.459)
Yeah. Oh, I'm going to go check it out. So people want to reach out, get your book, get in contact with you. How can they do that?

Finka (41:46.883)

Finka (41:55.006)
Yeah, I'll give you two ways. You can visit me on my website, www.fincainc.com. We've got lots of resources and tools available for you. If you want, connect with me on LinkedIn. And then a third way is check out the Transformational Selling podcast. I would love to learn more about you, so engage there as well.

Paul M. Caffrey (42:19.635)
Great, well, thank you so much for coming on. I had super enjoyable, lots of value shared, and I look forward to chatting to you again.

Finka (42:28.562)
Okay, fantastic. Thanks Paul for having me.

Paul M. Caffrey (42:34.427)
Okay, appreciate this. Let me actually hit stop.

Paul M. Caffrey (42:45.991)
So it's, I've.